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Merkley Campaign on Defensive Over You...Er, 'U'

by: torridjoe

Wed Nov 21, 2007 at 07:45:00 AM PST


Wasn't it just Monday that I was mentioning Steve Novick's knack for getting media attention and the chance to put his message forward? Jeff Alworth from our friends over at BlueO commented that Jeff Merkley had been in front of the same "two dozen Democrats in a Chinese restaurant" just a couple weeks earlier, implying I suppose equal love in Douglas County--but that wasn't the story; it was Novick's ability to get media out of it. Where is Merkley's story on the visit in the Roseburg News Review? (I was unable to find one; if there is please tell me... edit: when it helps their guy, I guess the Merkley campaign is willing to communicate info to me after all--consider me corrected.).

Certainly Merkley does get some press; he is, after all, usually mentioned first in any primary or general election story, often to the exclusion of Novick (but notably less so lately), and is always referred to as the presumed frontrunner. But the stories about Jeff Merkley, the candidate, and his run for Democratic nominee have lately been...eh. Stu Rothenberg is a bit of an old school thinker, but he took time to punch at Merkley. Dave Steves at the Register Guard then picked up the story as well, and even the Albany Herald got in on that one.

Then we discussed the evolution of Chris Cillizza, WaPo Senate pundit, who has gone from assuming the DSCC had picked the best candidate to one who is muddled now on the situation because it appears the coronation may not occur as scheduled. And this week they once again took a U-turn on the professional campaign highway, and got a bit of road rage trying to talk their way out of the ticket. Or thicket, whickever you prefer. {more}
torridjoe :: Merkley Campaign on Defensive Over You...Er, 'U'
When Mitch Greenlick and Mary Nolan had their own moment of drunk cobra striking on Novick, I called the Merkley campaign to see if the campaign had known of or approved the letter before it was given to BlueO. (We found out later that it had). Not only was that information refused, Russ Kelley and I spent very nearly half an hour arguing about the pace of HJM 9 (the Iraq withdrawal resolution in the House), much of it Kelley fulminating like nobody's business.

About halfway through I started wondering, "Why is he this bent out of shape? If me and my little community aren't worth the pixels we're printed on under the steamroller of inevitability, why is he giving it this much attention?" The scene decribed by Dick Hughes, editor at the Salem Statesman-Journal, seems awfully familiar somehow:

 

Jeff Merkley’s U.S. Senate campaign doesn’t get the item that was posted farther down. His press secretary thinks it was a cheap shot by our pointing out that his memo referred to Columbia, when he meant Colombia. He noted that he sent a corrected version. (He did that after I informed him of the error.)

He doesn’t understand why it’s relevant. So I’ll try again.

A. It demonstrates that the campaign isn’t too savvy about foreign affairs. That’s like candidate George W. Bush’s lack of knowledge about who's who among foreign leaders.

B. It’s one more misstep by the Jeff Merkley campaign. This is the same campaign that dumbly rented an out-of-state RV – with Washington plates – to launch his campaign. What were they thinking?

C. The Merkley campaign has to get a much thicker skin. I would have expected the press secretary to call us up and say, “My bad. You got us.” Instead, as I write this, he’s spent 27 minutes on the phone – and counting – trying to argue that it was unfair to knock the campaign for his confusing Columbia and Colombia.

Two things that have got to be Press Secretary 101 are:

1) Always remember you are sending this out to a bunch of people who were forced to sit through grammar and style classes and all have MLA guides sitting on their desks. Maybe it counts to no one else but teachers, but it counts to journalists and you have to know your audience. It's an easy mistake; that's why you gotta proofread for mistakes.
2) Reporters will always want to take the message away from you--give you coverage all right, just not necessarily the topic you submitted your release on. They will look for things that distract from the message, and make THAT the story.

Obviously this was a perfect storm of 1) and 2), and that resulted in the original blog column. Funny, ha ha, silly move, kinda embarrassing. Hughes is exactly right--the confident, well-tuned campaign laughs it off and says something like "Well, maybe we were daydreaming a little bit about the mighty Columbia Gorge or Columbia County or even our sweet new Columbia Sportswear snow jacket. But unlike Gordon Smith, we're IN Oregon, thinking ABOUT Oregon."

And so you have to wonder about what kind of campaign is being run, if not a confident, well-tuned one. The "thin-skinned campaign" narrative is starting to write itself, unfortunately--because that's what this episode sounds like, and it's frankly what we've seen for much of the campaign, in between endorsements and rest stop travelogues.

And I have to tell you, thin-skinned is nothing I want in the general election against Gordon Smith. Will Merkley campaign staff be calling up Fred Stickel to complain about missteps reported in the Oregonian, and jawing at him for half an hour? Will the unrelenting unfairness of RC Hammond and the GOP Attack Squad be cause for much gnashing of teeth and rending of garments in the name of fair play?

I just don't want to worry about whether the Democratic nominee will seriously take it to Smith, and not even slow down when they got to Washington. At times Merkley can't even seem to get going--Partygoers are still waiting for the reschedule of the campaign HQ (2nd half?) Kickoff Party. Watch the mails for the invite on that one--but double check the spelling in the address.

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LOL (4.50 / 4)
A. It demonstrates that the campaign isn't too savvy about foreign affairs. That's like candidate George W. Bush's lack of knowledge about who's who among foreign leaders.

The comparison to Bush isn't even remotely analogous, although I wouldn't expect those drunk on Novick brand Kool-Aid to engage their brains long enough to grasp that reality.

What WOULD be analogous would be Bush misspelling the names of world leaders. Actually even that wouldn't be analogous. It would have to have been Bush's Press Secretary making the mistake for it to be analogous.

Surely the Editor of a newspaper ought to be able to understand the glaring flaws in such a forced analogy.

B. It's one more misstep by the Jeff Merkley campaign. This is the same campaign that dumbly rented an out-of-state RV - with Washington plates - to launch his campaign. What were they thinking?

What were they thinking renting an RV from an OREGON company? Oh... did Mr. Hughes not realize that it was an OREGON company? Surely he wouldn't have published an attack on Merkley without checking the facts... would he?

C. The Merkley campaign has to get a much thicker skin. I would have expected the press secretary to call us up and say, "My bad. You got us." Instead, as I write this, he's spent 27 minutes on the phone - and counting - trying to argue that it was unfair to knock the campaign for his confusing Columbia and Colombia.

Should they have caught it? Yes, it was a stupid mistake on their part. But Mr. Hughes' absurd analogy coupled with his omitting widely known facts about the RV company betray the fact that he has an axe to grind.

Nobody gets to be the Editor of even a small newspaper like the Statesman Journal without being able to easily grasp the facts that I've pointed out here. And I have no reason to believe that Mr. Hughes wasn't fully able to reason through them before publishing this attack. Which, pursuant to Occam's Razor, leaves personal bias as the sole remaining explanation for Mr. Hughes' rant.


drunk at the S-J? (0.00 / 0)
"drunk on Novick Kool-Aid..."

do you know something about the choice for Senate among the editorial staff at the S-J, that we don't?

"What were they thinking renting an RV from an OREGON company?"

...that titled, taxed and licensed its vehicle in WASHINGTON?

"They must be biased" is hardly a winning or even cogent argument.


[ Parent ]
Isn't this interesting (5.00 / 2)
First of all, the Kool-Aid quip was aimed directly at TJ, and for good reason as I'm about to explain.

It appears that Mr. Hughes's piece on the contrived RV controversy was the only one in an Oregon newspaper. So that means he's just echoing his own frame, repleat with selectively cited facts.

Is there any other newspaper in Oregon to have jumped on this misspelling thing? Not that I know of.

That makes two anti-Merkley memes not only traced back to Dick Hughes, but apparently only published by Dick Hughes.

Back to the RV thing... What's interesting about that is that Mr. Hughes bragged about it over at the NW Republican blog, reinforcing the CW understanding that he is in fact a conservative:

http://nwrepublican....

For those who are counting this makes 4 (FOUR) frames from the Right and aimed at Merkley that TJ has parroted.

1. HR2 vote
2. East of the Cascades actually means Eastern Oregon
3. Everything supported by Schumer gets imputed to Merkley
4. Dick Hughes' talking points.

When will it end? Or, more to the point, is there an anti-Merkley talking point from the Right which TJ won't parrot???


[ Parent ]
oh so tired (2.50 / 2)
For the review of those who haven't had a chance to parse how utterly ridiculous your claims are:

1. HR2 vote--
  GOP talking point: "Merkley for war"
  Actual point: "Merkley loses clean shot at Smith on war"

2. East of Cascades means Eastern Oregon--
  GOP talking point: "Bend is not East of Cascades"
  Actual point: "Merkley hasn't visited Eastern Oregon yet"

3. Schumer bad = Merkley bad--
  GOP talking point: "Merkley bashing Democrats"
  Actual point: "Schumer w/ poor judgement; how does Merkley balance rejecting poor judgement and accepting money/endorsement?"

4. Dick Hughes--
  (Supposed) GOP talking point: "Merkley can't spell, won't be good Senator"
  Actual point: "Merkley running mediocre, thin-skinned campaign that jeopardizes chance to BE Senator"


[ Parent ]
Actually you're up to 5 (0.00 / 0)
since this is the second Dick Hughes frame you've echoed. The first one was the contrived RV thing which narry a single other newspaper echoed, and that includes the Eastern Oregonian which published meme #3 (and which you defended over at Beaver Boundry). And now it appears that Dick Hughes pushed the RV meme (which you echoed virtually verbatim) over at NW Republican.

As for your attempt to parse what the definition of "is" is...

1. TJ sez - Actual point: "Merkley loses clean shot at Smith on war"

Kev sez - ONLY if one buys into the GOP talking point, which you've done... in spades.

2. TJ sez - Actual point: "Merkley hasn't visited Eastern Oregon yet"

Kev sez - Except that you personally pushed the "East of the Cascades = 'shorthand for' Eastern Oregon" talking point over at Beaver Boundry. That's a DIRECT echoing of the GOP talking point.

3. TJ sez - Actual point: "Schumer w/ poor judgement; how does Merkley balance rejecting poor judgement and accepting money/endorsement?"

Kev sez - Assuming that you don't go back and change it... you called it a "GOP talking point" yourself in your post on the subject. Obviously your attempt now to back away from it is damned by your own choice of words in the post.

4. TJ sez - Actual point: "Merkley running mediocre, thin-skinned campaign that jeopardizes chance to BE Senator"

Kev sez - I fail to see any meaningful difference between your rephrasing here of what Dick Hughes said in the SJ piece. It's the same meme reworded ever so slightly... the second time you've done that with a Hughes talking point.



[ Parent ]
You're Only as Good as Your People (0.00 / 0)
OK, Kevin. As usual, you have a point... but by  opening with the Kool-Aid crack, you make me less interested in hearing it than in pissing back at you.

Jeff Merkeley wouldn't be the first politician I've run into in my life whose promising career trajectory came to an abrupt drop because of the people they surrounded themselves with.

You're probably quite right that's it's not fair to pin Merkeley personally because his press secretary messes up on details. He can and should be held institutionally responsible for the behavior of his staff and his approved spokespeople and surrogates (including Greenlick and Nolan).

Instead of lashing back at the truly snarky tone of many of these postings ("Double check the spelling in the address"???) Merkeley's supporters should be looking at why reasonable people inside and outside the media might start perceiving his campaign (and him) as thin-skinned and  whiney.

Face it, no press secretary who throws pissy fits at any member of the media has any business being a press secretary for anybody. And if his advisors and the other members of his staff aren't telling him that, something's wrong.

Merkeley needs to take a serious look at his whole staff before the REAL campaign starts because if he's the nominee and they keep behaving like they're working a Scappoose school board election, Hammond and company will make Jeff Merkeley look like Sanjaya Malakar auditioning for the Metropolitan Opera.


snark (0.00 / 0)
"Instead of lashing back at the truly snarky tone of many of these postings"

The undoing of arrogance via miscalculation is always a fair target for snark, IMO.


[ Parent ]
Yeah (5.00 / 2)
and parroting rightwing frames in the process is just icing on the cake, eh?

The Smith campaign ought to put you on their payroll.


[ Parent ]
I am a very strong Merkley supporter (3.00 / 2)
and even I have to agree with this statement:

Merkeley needs to take a serious look at his whole staff before the REAL campaign starts because if he's the nominee and they keep behaving like they're working a Scappoose school board election, Hammond and company will make Jeff Merkeley look like Sanjaya Malakar auditioning for the Metropolitan Opera.

I have volunteered in the office and have similar concerns as some others.  Carla is the ONLY one who even tried to spend more than 10 seconds speaking to me or explaining something.  Now I realise that folks are busy but other volunteers have made similar comments to me.  I was and am really concerned about the lack of "energy" for lack of a better word that I get from the campaign. 

Merkley and Novick both really need to head into the primary full of steam in order to build a victory over Smith and it has to start now.



[ Parent ]
Good point (0.00 / 0)
Merkley and Novick both really need to head into the primary full of steam in order to build a victory over Smith and it has to start now.

Now, who stands to benefit the most from the subject having been derailed from Senator Smith and his record on trade deals between Bush and repressive South American regimes to a typo by a press secretary in Oregon?

Why that would be Gordon Smith of course.

So how is anyone but Gordon Smith helped by an allegedly Progressive blog helping to obfuscate Smith's record and motives for being in Colombia posing with members of the Colombian military?

Does any self-respecting Progressive really believe that trying to ride Smith's coat tails into the General election could possibly be a viable campaign strategy approved of by a real progressive like Steve Novick?

That's the irony here! This really isn't even about Novick and Merkley's primary campaigns because neither of them benefits from such an incredibly self-defeating tact.


[ Parent ]
it's Novick (0.00 / 0)
"Now, who stands to benefit the most from the subject having been derailed from Senator Smith and his record on trade deals between Bush and repressive South American regimes to a typo by a press secretary in Oregon?"

Actually, Steve Novick--because it points out that Merley may not be the best person to take him on. It's worse for Smith if Novick is the primary winner, IMO.


[ Parent ]
the ends justify the means (0.00 / 0)
Yeah, we get it. That's your philosophy here.

You've openly declared common cause with Gordon Smith, however temporary. Which is obviously why you've been parroting rightwing talking points aimed at Merkley.

Finally... FINALLY you're being honest about this.

Of course the intellectual and ethical implications of your philosophy are profoundly damning. But you've got your Novick blinders on far too tightly to be able to see that no Progressive candidate has EVER won an election ANYWHERE by adopting your strategy. Not one! Ever!


[ Parent ]
really (0.00 / 0)
stop saying such fucking idiotic things as:

"You've openly declared common cause with Gordon Smith,"

talk about blinders! In your world, apparently, Jeff Merkley is above criticism--and anyway, he hasn't made any mistakes. That's bullshit. I'm not going to have Oregon saddled with Gordon Smith for six more years in the best change environment in decades, just because Merkley can't get his shit together. Right now, he's simply running an inferior campaign. We can't afford that. Novick's is capturing attention.


[ Parent ]
LOL You know better, Torrid (0.00 / 0)
In your world, apparently, Jeff Merkley is above criticism

I was among the first to criticize Kulongoski and Roberts endorsing Merkley, as you know perfectly well because you commented on my post about it over at PK. And anyone who has spent any time at all over at Blue Oregon, as you have, knows that I was as harsh of a critic of Measure 50 as there was anywhere. And Merkley's fingerprints were all over M50.

Nice try at diverting attention from your parroting of rightwing talking points and declaring that Novick benefits the most from it.

Oh, and I didn't have to use any profanity in the process. Someone really ought to teach you some manners.

:-)


[ Parent ]
not merkley (0.00 / 0)
criticizing Ted and Barb isn't criticizing Merkley, and not ONCE did I ever see you pin M50's failures on him.

You can claim "parroting GOP talking points all you want," but it just makes you look silly, because nobody besides you thinks such ridiculous things. Perhaps you've been with the GOP so long everything seems like a talking point to you. Just because the GOP make erroneous arguments doesn't mean there aren't valid ones to make.


[ Parent ]
intellectual honesty 101 (0.00 / 0)
and not ONCE did I ever see you pin M50's failures on him.

Why the F*&% would I want to "pin M50's failures" on anyone when I WANTED it to fail in the first place?

Do you have any conception whatever of just how nakedly you've displayed your anti-Merkley bias by even asking that question???

Ya know, this is about much more than you parroting rightwing talking points. You've done that and I have no doubt that you'll continue to do it. But you've turned this blog into a 3rd rate spin-meister blog.

The other day when I ran across what appears to be a Dick Hughes comment posted at NW Republican and posted it here, the reaction was crickets chirping. When I mentioned it to Carla her immediate reaction was not about Merkley or Novick but rather why the F*%& is the editor of a newspaper commenting on a rightwing blog!?!

If she were still here she'd have been all over that issue like white on rice, and without spinning it for or against either Merkley or Novick.

If you weren't addicted to your Novick Kool-Aid you'd probably jump on it to. But you obviously can't do that without undercutting your own parroting of his rightwing talking points because you perceive some twisted advantage for Novick out of parroting them (twice now!) and aren't remotely interested in killing your Golden Goose, even if he might be an ethically challenged rightwing editor.

THAT is how truly pathetic you and this blog have become.


[ Parent ]
why are you here? (0.00 / 0)
you spend an enormous amount of time at a place you find pathetic. How does that reflect on you?

you're cute when you associate Merkley negatively on M50 and then get faux-mad at me for following on your premise.

Interesting you mention Carla--why is it she's not here again? Oh yeah, she's spinning for or against Merkley or Novick. I however, am trying to destroy Merkley apparently by posting his upcoming appearance schedule and posting favorable threads on things like the letter on Smith's two-facedness. That'd be a real smart way to discredit him!

Of course I'm saying unflattering things about Merkley; he's done or been responsible for a number of unflattering things. And while I'm reasonably confident he'd be a decent Senator, I'm not sure of it--nor of his ability to get there against Smith.

Maybe I've been mild about Novick's missteps because they've been few and mild, and he's run a very solid campaign on a much tighter budget of both money and human resources. Maybe--instead of you constantly pinning all this pent-up hyperbolic aggression on ME--you should start reading the sources and wonder why so many of them, NWR-visiting or not, are noticing the disagility of the campaign. Am I telling them what to publish?

As for editors posting at right-wing blogs, I prefer my news providers to show me their biases up front. I think many readers of LO appreciate that the same policy applies here.


[ Parent ]
I'm trying to decide... (1.00 / 1)
... whether it's more pathetic that Merkley's camp would put someone into the role of trashing TJ and LO or that you'd willingly play the part of hatchet monkey on their behalf.

I'm actually fairly suprised how thin-skinned Merkley's folks are about these kid-gloves criticisms of their candidate.  The responses seem less like a war-room than they do the tantrums of an over-indulged 12-year old. 

That's never struck me as Jeff's style, and I'm surprised that he's allowed it to go on for as long as he has. 

As for this business about Dick Hughes...

I have no idea what his party affiliation is, but Dick is a moderate, a big-time advocate of good government, and an all-around good guy.  The S-J has endorsed many more Democrats than Republicans over the past 6 years. Who cares if he posts a comment on a blog?  Anyone who knows the man knows that he cuts it down the middle on most issues.

 


[ Parent ]
Not to mention... (0.00 / 0)
...California Republicans-turned-Oregon Democrats should not be allowed to accused OREGON DEMOCRATS of "parroting right-wing talking points," which seems to be all Forest Grove's will-sit-on-committee-for-food progressive scholar can muster up in support of Merkley.

[ Parent ]
I'm actually Working Family (0.00 / 0)
I'm with the WFP, to be explicit. Haven't ever been a Democrat, but I've voted for an assload of them since 1986.

[ Parent ]
For what it's worth... (0.00 / 0)
... I think you've been pretty tolerant of all of the trashing.  Kevin has contributed absolutely nothing on this blog other than to personally trash you, so far as I can see. 

This is a guy who has clearly been tasked with tearing you and this blog down for the duration of the primary.  100+ comments, and nearly every one an attack against you. I can't think of anyone else who runs a blog who wouldn't have banned his IP address by now.


[ Parent ]
So you agree? (0.00 / 0)
with TJ when he says that Novick benefits the most from having the subject derailed from Gordon Smith and his record endorsing Bush's "free trade" deals with historically repressive regimes to a relatively minor typo by a Primary candidate's press person in Oregon?

Considering the fact that, as the Bend Weekly News reports, "Surveys consistently show American students lag behind their global peers in their knowledge of geography and world events," it begs the question of relevance and priorities for Hughes/TJ.

Much more likely than not, a large swath of Oregon workers neither knew nor cared that the nation Colombia isn't spelled the same as the river Columbia. But you can bet that many of them care a very great deal about their jobs getting outsourced to Colombia if this "trade deal" goes through.

So I ask you, who stands the benefit the most from this story? How are working stiffs in Oregon better off for having the focus distracted from Smith to a typo?


[ Parent ]
Why would I even attempt .... (0.00 / 0)
.... to try and figure out what the hell you are talking about, Kevin?  Valid, rational arguments aren't going to persuade you on any point anyway.  This is really just about slinging garbage on behalf of Merkley's campaign in order to "raise TJ's negatives" and keep him from doing other things.

It's a really stupid move on the part of Merkley's campaign.  If they manage to quit tripping over their feet long enough and win the primary, they are going to need all the help they can get as they move in to the general.

It'll be hard enough for a second-tier candidate like Merkley to knock off an incumbent Senator without having "supporters" poison relationships with natural allies.


[ Parent ]
Don't you have a race to run? (0.00 / 0)
Far be it for you to play referee here, Sal.  Unlike you, not all of us are running a former Republican's campaign with visual inspriation from Oregon's leading racist immigration-reform group.

|beaver boundary: place, politics and power in oregon|

[ Parent ]
irony (0.00 / 0)
And what role does "Taoiseach" play in the Merkley campaign? Does he get a "thumbs up" from them for his oblique attempt to peg Frohnmayer as a racist?

[ Parent ]
You're misinformed, Tom. (0.00 / 0)
Misinformed, as usual.  I have never been an employee of the Frohnmayer campaign. I am certainly not the campaign manager. 

[ Parent ]
Nice Try, Sal. (0.00 / 0)
But you are the one who's misinformed.  It would be all too convenient for the Novick to pin my identity to one of their self-identified opponents (Greenlick).

Sorry, that doesn't check out here.  In the rush to think that your opposition is simply astroturf, you've looked over any real grassroots support for Merkley, of which there's actually a lot.

|beaver boundary: place, politics and power in oregon|


[ Parent ]
Bizarre comment, Tom. (0.00 / 0)
There is indeed some grassroots support for Merkley.  I haven't seen anyone claim otherwise.  Of course, that says nothing about why Kevin is hanging around trying to trash TJ.

[ Parent ]
Greenlick's "LA" ? (0.00 / 0)
When someone says that Beaver Boundary's Taoiseach is actually Tom Powers, "LA" to Mitch Greenlick, what does the "LA" stand for?

And isn't Mitch Greenlick the guy who got the green light from the Merkley campaign to smear the party establishment candidate's primary opponent with a disingenuous mud-slinging personal attack prominently placed on BlueOregon's front page?


[ Parent ]
What are you hiding from, Pat? (0.00 / 0)
How are blue collar Oregonians better served by having the issue of prospective Republican-backed trade deals with repressive regimes diverted to a typo?

For that matter, how are any but affluent Oregonians who are in a position to exploit cheap labor in Colombia benefitted by what TJ has done here?


[ Parent ]
Dr. Heckle and Mr. Hide (0.00 / 0)
TJ, Is there a way to add "batshit crazy" to the comment rankings?

[ Parent ]
IOW (0.00 / 0)
you don't care who gets screwed by Republican trade deals as long as Merkley is somehow damaged in the process.

[ Parent ]
It's very simple (0.00 / 0)
How are working stiffs in Oregon better off for having the focus distracted from Smith to a typo?

[ Parent ]
I actually (0.00 / 0)
have a great deal of respect for the WFP. I enjoy the alternate perspectives that we get from third-party "I've voted for an assload of Ds." Keeps us honest.

[ Parent ]
100% me (0.00 / 0)
Nobody nowhere tells me what to say or where to say it, nor does anyone have veto power over what I say. As always, I calls it the way I sees it, nothing more and nothing less. I do nothing on anyone's behalf but my own.

Here's what I see happening here... You've read the handwriting on the wall and, having advocated for Frohnmeyer elsewhere (which TJ is perfectly aware of), you see an opportunity to recruit TJ and his bullypulpit here as Frohnmeyer partisans once Merkley secures the Democratic slot for the General election.

Ironically enough I would normally be a prime candidate for that since I've long, and very publically, been a passionate advocate for politically Independent candidates. In fact my first (and oldest) political website is devoted solely to Independents. And yes, I was one of those people scrambling to collect signitures for Ben Westlund's Gubernatorial bid until he withdrew from the race.

As for Dick Hughes... We know that the RPO jumped on the contrived RV plates issue and sent it out as one of their talking points, which TJ dutifully parroted. This misspelling thing looks and smells to be in the same mold. More to the point it demonstrates, at the very least, a convergence of political perspective on Merkley between Hughes, the Oregon GOP and Torrid Joe.


[ Parent ]
Kevin = cyber stalker (0.00 / 0)
Kevin, first you accuse Novick of not supporting the troops and being anti-military, then you accuse TJ of parroting GOP talking points.

You're brain is funny. But not in the ha ha kind of way.

Tell me again, what is it that you do when you're not stalking TJ? Your consistent hectoring of him must not leave time for much else, like pulling your head out of your ass maybe.


[ Parent ]
Awww... puppy love is so cute (0.00 / 0)
Anything to distract from the parroted GOP talking points eh?

Particularly interesting in the context of this post was TJ's defense of the Eastern Oregonian's "semantic error" as a useful shortcut and then went on to say that he "agreed that the GOP blew it by forgetting their geography, but the East O raised a valid issue..."

Torrid does two things there. 1. he equates the EO's article with the GOP, and 2. he dismisses the "symatic error" as being less important than the underlying issue being raised.

How is whether "East of the Cascades" a "useful shortcut" for "Eastern Oregon" not as important as whether Merkley had yet visited more easterly parts of the state but the misspelling of the country Colombia somehow MORE important than the underlying issue of Gordon Smith & the Republican-advocated trade deal?

Does anyone seriously believe that Oregonians ought to be more concerned about which date a candidate gets to a certain geographic point in the eastern part of the state than having their jobs outsourced???


[ Parent ]
I'm not buying any of it. (0.00 / 0)
Your only contribution here, indeed your only role, is to trash TJ and try to tear down his blog.

My decision to call you out for your behaviour has nothing to do with helping John launch his campaign, and everything to do with a visceral dislike for the fact that you are colluding with a campaign to tear someone down because they happen to support the other guy in the race.


[ Parent ]
Oh I see (0.00 / 0)
Your public advocation for Frohnmeyer isn't relevant but my public advocation for Merkley is? Honestly, how many people do you think would buy the assertion that of two partisans only one partisan's partisanship is relevant while the other's is mere coincidence?



[ Parent ]
If this were about John Frohnmayer ... (0.00 / 0)
... I'd let the two of you tear each other up. 

If you don't want to cop to your own bad behaviour, that's fine.  But don't pretend, even to yourself, that other people aren't aware of what you're doing.


[ Parent ]
Occam's Razor (0.00 / 0)
All I've done is to respond to TJ's spin here and elsewhere. He churns out spin and parrots rightwing talking points, I respond (admittedly, equally aggressively) and you've concluded that I'm the bad actor here... and I'm supposed to believe that your public advocacy for Frohnmeyer is irrelevant? Occam's Razor indicates otherwise. Particularly since you consistently avoid rebutting my arguments in favor of trying to shoot the messenger.

I'm not trying to be nice. I'm sorry if that offends you but under no circumstances do I apologize for exposing TJ's parroted rightwing talking points or for pointing out that Gordon Smith is at least one major beneficiary of what he's doing here.


[ Parent ]
just to repeat (0.00 / 0)
If it's a legit criticism, like Merkley's robo-calls, it's NOT parroting merely because the GOP point out the same Merkley made mess, even if they're the first to point the finger.

I do not agree that Kevin has put forth any arguments to be rebutted. (But i could be confusing him with another surrogate. Blame the tryptophan). I do agree with Kevin that Merkley's mediocre media strategy benefits Gordon "Ghost" Smith.


[ Parent ]
Legit? (0.00 / 0)
Why is one geographic error ("East of the Cascades") apparently not as important as the thrust of it's underlying argument, according to TJ's statements at Lefty Lane, but another geographic error (Columbia instead of Colombia) is more important than the thrust of it's underlying argument?

The former was a GOP talking point which TJ was giving cover to, however indirectly, and the latter is Gordo himself who gets off the hook because TJ suddenly found a geographic error that he has a problem with and he'd rather harp on that then whether Oregon workers might get screwed once again by the Smith/Bush tandem.


[ Parent ]
Actually... (0.00 / 0)
... I'd say that Gordon benefits more from your work than anything else.  The last thing the winner of the Democratic primary needs is people sitting on their hands because a "supporter" of one of the candidates spent 6 months trashing people who support the other guy.

It kinda makes me wonder what your real motivation is. 

As for "rebutting your arguments"...

What would be the point?  It's not as though you're open to persuasion anyway. 


[ Parent ]
That would make sense except that (0.00 / 0)
Why would a Frohnmeyer supporter be concerned about Democrats sitting on their hands in the first place? 

Besides which, you've described Merkley supporters as thin-skinned but now you're also expressing concern that Novick supporters will be so thin-skinned that they'd sit on their hands because I've dared to challenge his spin?

Now, why would a Frohnmeyer supporter want Team Novick to constantly bleed Merkley, unopposed, while getting slaughtered by Team Merkley in the fundraising department?

 


[ Parent ]
All I'm saying ... (0.00 / 0)
... is that if you choose to spend the next 6 months attacking people because they don't support your guy, the likely result is that they're not going to help your candidate if he manages to get out of the primary.

To answer your question...

I don't have any rancor towards any of the candidates in this race.  I prefer Frohnmayer and then Novick because I believe that Oregon needs to send a litigator to the US Senate, someone who will work to roll back the power of the executive branch. 

I think you overestimate your role, and the role of the comments section of LoadedOrygun in the grand scheme of things if you believe that I'm pointing out your bad behaviour as part of some secret scheme to get anyone elected to the Senate.

I'm pointing out your bad behaviour for the reasons I've given... I find your approach of attacking candidates supporters to be  offensive, generally poor strategy, and more helpful to Gordon Smith than anyone else.  I'd say the same to TJ if he were following you around like a jilted lover.

If you really want to influence the primary, go get some lit pieces and start knocking on doors.  Although if your behaviour here is any indicator, you might do more harm than good.


[ Parent ]
Just out of curiosity (0.00 / 0)
which would you rather have, a non-litigator elected or Smith re-elected?

As for my comments over here, I honestly don't believe that some of the Novick cadre here would back Merkley under any circumstances. I fully expect some of them to back Frohnmeyer if he's still around or someone else if he's not. Not because they prefer him on the issues but because they've painted themselves into an anti-Merkley corner.

I challenge them over here not because I expect to change their minds - I don't believe anything could change their minds - but for the sake of those who read but don't comment. And if I didn't do that over here then it would go back to what it was a month ago with this core cadre spreading anti-Merkley ill will at numerous other blogs. You may have noticed that even Novick backers at Blue Oregon got sick and tired of TJ & Company's cheap shots over there.

You may also have noticed that I don't attack Novick at all at my blog, not even obliquely. In fact had he come out against M50 I would have lauded the progressiveness of that stance. But he took the same unprogressive path on it that Merkley did. 

Anyway, there are several reasons for my not writing anti-Novick posts even though I much prefer Mekley, but the main one is because I don't see stirring the pot as helpful towards replacing Smith. However it is crystal clear to me that TJ, Pat, Thom and a couple others actively want to stir the pot at every opportunity, real or imagined, and since they're gonna do it anyway I figure it makes more sense to do it here and keep the cancer localized.

If I were seriously interested in butchering Novick's chances to beat Smith then I'd be writing crap like TJ does over here. I could even write diaries over here for that matter. I don't and won't do that because it's not helpful. But the cancer is going to be here either way and it'd be on a bunch of other blogs too if TJ & Co felt free to return to spreading it across the blogosphere. If my being here keeps the disease localized then I consider that a good thing. I want to see Smith voted out of office next November!!

Those are my honest views. Agree or disagree as you see fit.


[ Parent ]
I'd argue.... (0.00 / 0)
... that you are doing as much as anyone to paint people into an anti-Merkley corner.

Think about it.


[ Parent ]
How so? (0.00 / 0)
By not churning out anti-Novick blog posts?

And another thing... you suggested in an earlier comment that I'm "attacking people because they don't support your guy." Show me where I attacked Charlie Burr or Colin Malony or Jenni Simonis or Chuck Butcher. They're all Novick backers. If your characterization of me were accurate then where is the record of me attacking them? It doesn't exist because your characterization is inaccurate. And it's inaccurate for the same reason that I don't churn out anti-Novick blog posts over at my place.

Think about it.


[ Parent ]
lol... (0.00 / 0)
... all I've criticized you for is attacking TJ in a puerile attempt to discredit his blog.  If you don't believe that you've alienated several people in that process, then I'll just assume that you aren't cursed with much self-awareness.

[ Parent ]
That's progress at least (0.00 / 0)
You've gone from a sweeping generalization to a more specific charge. That's progress. But if I were motivated by a desire to discredit LO as a whole, as you've charged, then why am I not dogging every post? Why have I never criticized Nothstine (whom I admire and respect)?

I'll readily admit that my Kool-Aid quips have been personal. But other than that I've focused my criticism to TJ's regurgitated rightwing talking points and questioning his capacity to honestly access Jeff Merkley on anything. I've not criticized him or his posts on any other points. That hardly seems the M.O. of a person interested in discrediting an entire blog.


[ Parent ]
uh (0.00 / 0)
"focused my criticism to TJ's regurgitated rightwing talking points"

you mean your laughably erroneous, repeatedly disproven assessment of those talking points??


[ Parent ]
more conspiracy BS (0.00 / 0)
"As for my comments over here, I honestly don't believe that some of the Novick cadre here would back Merkley under any circumstances. I fully expect some of them to back Frohnmeyer if he's still around or someone else if he's not. Not because they prefer him on the issues but because they've painted themselves into an anti-Merkley corner."

I don't think many people (sorry Sal) are even really considering Frohnmayer as a viable candidate, so you're just speculating wildly to support your own thesis that it's a hatchet job being done here.


[ Parent ]
Doesn't bother me... (0.00 / 0)
I played my part for John, helping him to get as much or more national and local press than either Democratic candidate for his launch.

John understood the score going in.  If he can raise money as a 3rd party candidate, he's viable.  If he can't, he's not.  I think he'd be leading the pack if he were running as a D, though. He's much better on the stump than either Merkley or Novick, and he's still drawing bigger crowds than either of them, so far as I can tell.

Example:  No one showed for Novick at WOU or PSU.  Frohnmayer had 45 and 30 at each of them, respectively.  His weakest crowd so far was 15.  Merkley had only a half dozen or so at Linfield last week.  If Frohnmayer were to come to McMinnville, he'd have at least 40-50.


[ Parent ]
No one showed at PSU? (0.00 / 0)
When Steve first visited the PSU campus, there were at least 50 people that showed up out in the park blocks to hear him speak. By the time he had finished he had drawn in at least another 25-30 more people with his message and his enthusiasm.

During Steve's last visit, Students for Steve were able to gather more than 30 volunteer sign-ups.

I don't know about Western, but folks definitely showed up at PSU.


[ Parent ]
Not at the event in the student union, so far as I could tell (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
A hatchet job (0.00 / 0)
is the totality of this post you wrote a week ago.

You like to talk about the need to contrast and compare Novick and Merkley but then you turn around and fabricate shit out of thin air. And rarily do you even make a pretense of contrasting or comparing the two of them. You just hack away at Merkley as if that somehow makes Novick look good by default.

This post here is another perfect example. When a newspaper piece attacked Merkley you went out of your way over at Lefty Lane to downplay it's glaring geographical error (East of the Cascades is "short" for Eastern Oregon???). But here you give Smith an unqualified pass on a subject vastly more important to every working stiff in Oregon than how far East fucking Bend, Oregon is, to harp on a geographical error consisting of a minor typo that few people would have even realized was wrong.

WTF?


[ Parent ]
Just curious.... (0.00 / 0)
.... how much mileage do you intend to get out of a press release from a month ago? 

What is this, like 10 comments on the same topic? 

I think the real question is, if you are so concerned about working people in this state, why are you still fixating on this instead of making the case against Gordon Smith and Earl Blumenauer, and everyone else who supports NAFTA-style free trade agreements in Central and South America?

Besides, who are you to dictate what topics TJ, or anyone else for that matter, should be discussing?


[ Parent ]
Interesting... (0.00 / 0)
you take exception to me even questioning what TJ discusses but try to take me to task in the same breath for what I'm discussing?

Well, at least your creds as an honest broker are intact...



[ Parent ]
It's a fair point, Kevin. (0.00 / 0)
You seem to be worried about this issue, but you've only ever discussed it in the context of what Torrid Joe should be discussing and why LoadedOrygun sucks.

It begs the question:  If you are really worried about the issue, why aren't you discussing it outside of that context?

Your response is unsurprising, Kevin.  Self-reflection is something that most people don't handle well.


[ Parent ]
You should drop by SE 8th & Madison... (0.00 / 0)
...it's got a real good feng shui, and the people are full of energy.

[ Parent ]
This is hillarious (0.00 / 0)
Merkeley needs to take a serious look at his whole staff before the REAL campaign starts because if he's the nominee and they keep behaving like they're working a Scappoose school board election, Hammond and company will make Jeff Merkeley look like Sanjaya Malakar auditioning for the Metropolitan Opera.

The staff at Merkley HQ is as good as it gets from an Oregon Democrat.

Jon Issacs: Lead the 6 seat two cycle switch in the OR House that led to the most progressive and productive session in the last 30 years as Campaign Manager. Recently was listed as the key insider for the third best Oregon campaign in this century.

Russ Kelly: The press secretary that you want fired served in the same capacity in the House Majority leaders office.  Also as someone from Salem, Dick Hughes is pretty damn conservative. I mean he endorsed Dan Doyle after he got his hand caught in the cookie jar.

Ivo Trummer: Future Pac Fundraising Guru, also worked for Bev Stein among others.

I could go on but they are the best that Oregon Dems have.

To suggest that reasonable people is a category that includes TJ is silly.  He would rather talk about this then the fact that Novick despite all of his claims of being for the small guy and working people hasn't gotten one labor endorsement yet and one of the biggest union players went for Merkley yesterday. Novick isn't getting it done so he would prefer to sling mud.

Check out my Oregon politics blog at Forward Oregon


[ Parent ]
Brad (0.00 / 3)
You are hurting not helping Merkley. Now, go back to work on that thesis. And when you're ready, please come back with some specific attack against Novick; preferably with some evidence, something more than your opinion. Trust me. I know how much "hard work" a thesis can be. I understand it can "eat huge chunks out of your life." So give those disco feet of yours a rest, Mr. Dunn, and put your writing skills where they're needed most. Bona fortuna!

[ Parent ]
R. Kelly NOT a Rock Star (0.00 / 0)
I haven't seen any evidence that Mr. Kelly's work for Mr. Merkeley in the Speaker's office was superior to his work for Mr. Merkeley in this campaign... and frankly, based what I've seen so far- while you and Mr. Merkeley may think Mr. Kelly is the best he can get- his work here wouldn't qualify him for a PR job with FEMA.

My point with the rest of the staff is that they should be suggesting Mr. Kelly be assigned to a policy position (speechwriting, perhaps) that doesn't require contact with the public or the press.


[ Parent ]
It was specific (0.00 / 0)
Novick claims he represents working people. Working people disagree and think the other guy is better at representing them. No labor groups have endorsed Novick, not one. How more specific than that can you get?  What more evidence do you want?

Thesis draft 2 is turned in.  You are calling me things that aren't my name now.

Since you cant bother to get my name right nor do you have a thesis why don't spend some of your time coming up with an argument that has a true premise, accurate logic, isn't supported by a crazy conspiracy theory, or attempts to use paternalistic language to demean me.

Check out my Oregon politics blog at Forward Oregon


[ Parent ]
how many have endorsed? (0.00 / 0)
Two? Three? You'll see better results from the unions that give their working people more of a direct voice in the endorsement process, I'd wager.

And of course it's utterly absurd for you to translate AFSCME Oregon into "working people."


[ Parent ]
Swing and a miss TJ (0.00 / 0)
AFSCME members do have a direct voice:
Jeff Merkley's Senate campaign picked up another significant labor endorsement Tuesday, as Oregon AFSCME Council 75 announced their members had voted to support him

They are the third biggest politically active union in the state after SEIU and OEA. They represent 22,000 workers.  Thats a whole lot of working people TJ.  Considering the score is Merkely 3 Novick 0 with working people, you want to predict how many unions endorse Novick?

Check out my Oregon politics blog at Forward Oregon


[ Parent ]
when you grow up (1.00 / 1)
you'll come to understand that there's a difference between union leadership and "working people."

[ Parent ]
FU my entire family is in a union don't patronize me (0.00 / 1)


Check out my Oregon politics blog at Forward Oregon

[ Parent ]
I'm in one too (0.00 / 0)
but I'm willing to admit that there is definitely a two-tier system in most unions, particularly the older and more manufacturing-based ones, plus the teachers.

And the process of endorsement varies in its directness and openness of elections.

Don't get your knickers in a twist; AFSCME's a good get. But I'd be curious to find out the spread and I think it would have been pretty shocking for them not to back Merkley in the end. He's played ball with them, and they like what they've gotten.


[ Parent ]
which makes (0.00 / 0)
the stumbles all the more notable and curious--which is what Hughes is pointing out. Good people doesn't necessarily equal good campaign, as we've seen.

[ Parent ]
"Good" vs. "Well-Intentioned" (0.00 / 0)
I think you need to make a distinction, TJ. Good people can make a good campaign if "good" means competent. Well-intentioned but incompetent people, however, are likely to pave the road to a Republican victory.

[ Parent ]
that's what I meant (0.00 / 0)
I didn't mean that they were nice folks--clearly, assholes can be great campaign staff. I meant well-regarded.

[ Parent ]
TJ (5.00 / 1)
You are hurting not helping Novick.

cheers,

Mitch Gore


doubtful (0.00 / 0)
we disagree.

[ Parent ]
i know, let's stomp each other into the dust. Gordo will love that. (4.00 / 1)
what i don't get is how people on the same team -- and since beating Gordo is the only game that matters, we surely must be on the same team -- can waste so much time and energy attacking each other.  i understand where TJ is coming from, in part: a weak Merkley team in the primary is a bad sign for the general (should he win).  i doubt very much TJ is trying to explain why Merkley should not be a US Senator (he ain't stupid after all).  in fact, this article is not about the candidates; it's about perceptions regarding his team. 

and personally, i don't want to see either Merkley or Novick staffed by people out of their depth, unable to cope with the pressure, unwilling to admit errors, etc.  i still recall the infighting that was part of Dean's downfall (not to mention the attacks on him by other Dems). 

the point is to dump Smith.  yes, everyone thinks their candidate is The Man, but fuck that.  it is possible to critique one another and not have it turn into a goddamn circular firing squad.  these candidates, and Oregon, deserve better.  and if they choose to keep certain people on their staff, it does not lessen then need for us to fight on regardless.  the prize is too big to let the mechanics of campaigning get in the way.  we can be smarter than that.


Eyes on the prize (4.00 / 2)
The goal is to defeat Smith.  Our job then, as people interested in defeating Smith (registered Dems and not), is to pick the best candidate to do so.  Right now there are a number of candidates in the race, and how they've put their teams together is a legitimate point.  Gaffes can undermine a campaign, and either candidate will be facing an incumbent Senator who has been around the block a few times.

I think Charlie Burr's post on BlueO the other day is good to keep in mind here.  from the post:

Former Sen. John Edwards, who ran for president in 2004 with an unfailingly upbeat campaign and then joined the ticket of his party's nominee, has come back this year with a fighting edge - an edge which Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York has likened to "mudslinging... right out of the Republican playbook.''

"I don't think so,'' Edwards said of the complaint which Clinton lodged about his criticism for her in the debate of the Democrat candidates in Las Vegas last week. "The idea that that this is mudslinging... We're talking about substantive issues of war,'' Edwards said on CBS News' Face the Nation today. "If anybody, including Sen. Clinton, thinks this is mudslinging - this is milquetoast, compared to what we're going to see next fall.''


I think that given that we all (i think) share that goal of unseating Smith, (most) criticisms that are made of a candidate's campaign are made in the hopes that either 1) that candidate will be stronger due to learning how to deflect/counter those arguments or 2) that a candidate with serious liabilities isn't selected to go against Smith.

That I prefer Steve Novick is well known to posters here, but you'll never hear me saying (or implying) I'd prefer Smith to Merkley. 

Thanks, T.A., for bringing this back to earth...


[ Parent ]
For what it's worth (0.00 / 0)
Christine Pelosi has been doing a question and answer blog over at Firedoglake in which she offers this...

As to the comments/questions about primaries, nearly everyone I interviewd - politicos and reporters - said primaries are tougher than general elections and intramurals in a caucus or on a board are tought still because you have a smaller universe of voters and the sure reality is that when one person wins the others' allies will have to live with the result.

For people working on primaries my advice FWIW is remember a basic law of ethics: "if they'll do it for you, they'll do it to you." If people offer you smears about your opponent be aware that if you accept these tactics you are defining yourself by them. So don't fight with a scorched earth policy - if you get what you want - you win! - you will be serving alongside former adversaries whom you'll now want to work with to advance your agenda.


[ Parent ]

Return to LO home...!


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